Since everyone here knows for a fact only humans can change the climate how did the cavemen mange to do it?
I mean it was very cold during the last ice age yet the planet’s climate changed to make the earth warmer. Since everyone here knows for a fact only humans can change the climate how did the cavemen mange to do it?
There are some more facts that have not been mentioned in other posts:
Fact i) the ‘Little Ice Age’ (1600s to 1800s) was caused at least partially by a lack of sunspots for an extended period of time
Fact ii) the earth was generally warming since the ‘Little Ice Age’, even before the ‘Industrial Age’
Fact iii) a ‘correlation’ between temperature (i.e. rise) and CO2 emission (i.e. rise) does not equate to cause
Fact iv) the earth has natural climate change mechanisms (i.e. Milankovich cycles) which can cause temperature changes that are ~20x larger (i.e. ~8C compared to ~0.4C) than those that have happened during the ‘Industrial Age’.
Fact v) the warming trend from ~1970-2000 has ceased and since there has been a flat trend to slight cooling, precisely while CO2 levels are the highest they have been during the ‘Industrial Age.’
By the way, for those that claim 10 years of flat temperature does not disprove global warming (i.e. doesn’t make a ‘trend’), the same argument could be used to say that warming would need to resume for more than 10 years for one to say that global warming has indeed resumed (i.e. it takes more than 10 years to declare a ‘trend’).
But at the end of the day, once ‘cap-and-trade’ passes and goes into effect, my guess is talk of global warming will greatly subside…
ITS so easy, even a caveman can do it.
one they have the fire to leave their cave at nite
There is no such creature as cavemen. And you are talking about changes that occurred over 10,000 years as apposed to rapid changes that have occurred in the last 5 years.
I guess I stand corrected. There really is such a thing as a stupid question.
Scientist know for a fact that their are natural and anthropogenic factors that impact climate since the start of the industrial revolution because of the vast quantity of fossil fuel used to drive industrialization. Scientist know far a fact that human activity emits billions of tons of CO2 into the air annually, and that CO2 is a greenhouse gas that will force global temperatures to increase. Scientists know for a fact that the mean global temperature has increased 0.7C since the start of the industrial revolution to present.
Scientist know for a fact that Malankovitch cycle, solar cycles, and volcanic activity cause long-term variability in climate with the Malankovitch cycles being the primary driver of ice age periods. Before the industrial revolution, scientist know for a fact that cavemen did not burn vast quantities of fossil fuel, but relied biomass fuels (wood), and that CO2 rose in the atmosphere as a result of warming temperature (increases decay). Scientists know for a fact that burning biomass and allowing biomass to grow results in no net gain of CO2 in the atmosphere.
Scientist know for a fact that burning fossil fuel (fossilized biomass that has been essentially removed from the carbon cycle) results in a net gain of CO2 in the atmosphere enhancing the greenhouse effect – 30 to 50% of the CO2 emitted remains in the air, the rest goes into the ocean or other sinks.
From these facts we can conclude the following –
1. cavemen did not burn huge quantities of fossil fuel and therefore did not cause changes to climate.
2. Current human activity is altering the atmosphere and this causing the current warming we see.
3. Changing the energy distribution on the earth is going to change climate.
4. humans caused it, so changing human behavior should reduce the impact.
AGW does not effect past natural climate changes, and in the past 2.5 million years these had been happening on a fairly regular cycle with glacial periods last ~100,000 years and interglacial lasting 15-25 thousand years. Humans as a species have lived through at least two of these.
As for whats happening at the moment we are basically imitating nature, in the distant past before the current 2.5 million year cycle natural climate change has been triggered by Co2 from volcano’s but it took ten’s of thousands of years, we are currently adding Co2 to the atmosphere at around 100x the contribution of volcanoes.
You are completely deluded if you think science claims that…
Dramatic climate changes that occurred in the past don’t justify that humans can’t influence climate in the present.
Why do you think "only humans can change the climate"? Who would be stupid enough to make a claim like that?
jim z: There is geologic evidence of climate change before man, so the questioner is putting forth an argument that she/he/it knows to be false, and so are you. I would suggest that EVERYONE that believes in man-made global warming understands that climate has changed in the past WITHOUT human intervention, so the answer to your question is, no, they are not stupid enough what you and the questioner suggest.
However, people that deny humans can affect the climate are being stupid, since there certainly is strong evidence humans are affecting it in all sorts of ways: not just by adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, but also by adding particulates that can decrease sunlight and increase cloud nuclei, urban heat island effects etc. People that do not believe that mankind can affect the climate are being stupid, no doubt about that.
This is what is called a "straw man" argument. You’re putting words into other people’s mouths (or posts) that are false, and then arguing against the falsehood that YOU planted.
I’m just SAYIN’…
I do not understand why these" scientific" people believe it is alright to insult those who do not agree with their opinion that man is causing global warming. Perhaps because the evidence is not on their side.
Fact 1: Clouds reflect the rays of the sun.
So if the earth warms, then more water will evaporate causing more clouds, causing earth to cool.
Fact 2: CO2 is only 3% of the greenhouse gasses, of which man adds 3%. We can affect .09%.
Fact 3: The sun is the biggest determining factor fo the environment. Funny you would think you would put that into the computer models.
Fact 4: My weatherman cannot tell me the temperature 5 days from now. How can you say with certainty what the weather is going to be like 50 years from now?
Fact 5: The GWers have started to talk about "climate change" because this allows them to not have to predict anything, they can just point to it after it occurs and say look man did that. Here is a clue, the environment always in a state of change.
Fact 6: The bandwidth in which CO2 can store energy is very small, so CO2 is not a powerful greenhouse gas.
Fact 7: The bandwidth that H2O can store energy is very large, not only is it the most prevelent, but it is the most powerful greenhouse gas.
Fact 8: As the temperature rises, there is more water in the atmosphere, but the predictions of the rising in the oceans never account for loss of H2O to the air.
Fact 9: While the ice in the Artic has melted, slightly, the ice Antarctica has been growing.
The biggest clue that man made global warming is not occurring is that politicians are for the cause. They lie for a living. Now they are telling you that they are going to tax the industry for unclean fuel. Who do you think will ultimately be taxed? Oh and if someone says "Scientists know for a fact", they do not know what they are talking about.
About the use of biofuels like, wood being "good". Coal and oil are just old biofuel. That makes absolutely no sense.
I think I’d go with pegminer’s answer on this one.
WHAT? YOU’re confused. They didn’t. There wasn’t enough cavemen around and there wasn’t any of the technology we have today.
Previous global warmings and ice ages were all natural. They happened over millions of years.
the difference now is WE. We did it in a two to three hundred years span because of technology and mainly greed… and guess what? Is not going to get any better. China, in the next 50 years, will destroy our planet 3 times faster than what we did over a 100 year span. This is just China. Remember we have developing countries and countries that r developed and conitue on a path of great destruction of our only home.
A llot of morons will tell u a different story. But, look at he facts.
Past natural climate changes took tens of thousands of years. Global warming has happened over a century. Never in the history of earth has the climate changed so rapidly. AND the natural forces, the sun’s intensity and the Milankovitch cycles are trying to cause cooling but are being overwhelmed.
You are incorrect. Probably the majority on YA are skeptical of significant human impact.
Pegminer said:
Why do you think "only humans can change the climate"? Who would be stupid enough to make a claim like that?
How about those that insist they know humans have been the primary factor. Are they stupid enough?
Well that’s a very good question that has yet to be answered. The time period the the "cavemen" went extinct is OIS-3. During that time the climate varied wildly. A recent Scientific American article proposed climate was the demise of neanderthals. While not directly linked to current climate studies, it makes a salient point, in that there is no good explanation for the radical changes in climate. Despite several efforts, climate modelers cannot reproduce this period. So what does this tell us? Reliance on computer models is ill advised, and that current understanding of climate physics in incomplete.
It seems currently the batch of "scientists" suffer from intellectual megalomania, in that they believe they understand all and know even more. Egos can get in the way, and when this happens in other professions, people die.
These days there is more to climate science than climate science.
Hi Tatim,
With respect, your question shows that you don’t yet have a fundamental understanding of climate change. What you’ve done is oversimplify something very complicated to the point where it seems to you like all the experts are the naive ones and you’ve outsmarted them.
Anyone with any knowledge at all on the subject will know that your argument is flawed. (Plenty of people here have pointed out your error of assuming that somebody has actually said that ONLY humans can change the climate). I expect that there will also come a point where you learn a little more and come to understand your initial errors.
However, I unfortunately predict that, like most climate change deniers, you will not look at the basic science at all but will just root around until you have collected more reasons for denial.
I hope that you will be different in this regard from most other deniers. If you would like to keep an open mind, and give both sides a fair chance, I would suggest that you start by looking at http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
If you decide to get more serious with your research, then don’t just read a one-sided book by a climate change denier, but also get yourself a copy of "What’s The Worst That Could Happen?" by Greg Craven or "The Rough Guide To Climate Change".
Good luck and thanks for reading.
I don’t think this question is funny or the work of an idiot. This strawman has been the basis for so many skeptical arguments I can’t begin to count.
Totally disingenuous and revealing of the intent of the questioner, that is to confuse and deceive. Worse, it implies the questioner thinks his audience is composed of idiots who will fall for it. Disgusting!
well it is very possible neolithic people did indeed begin the anthropogenic climate change;
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-did-humans-first-alte
cause they didnt have factories like we do now
LOL good question!! I guess climate change is so easy, even a caveman can do it (Geico).
I’m here all week!!